actually, the combined total from washington up to george w. bush. president obama has racked up more spending, $1 trillion deficits. and it's time that he join us in this effort to get our fiscal house in order. what is a drag on the economy is the spending. that is what is hurting hard-working taxpayer right now. and so we need him to join us in this effort. >> at the end of the day, this is going to be a question about public opinion. what makes you think talking about not raising the debt ceiling or shutting down the government, what have you, is a winner in the court of public opinion? >> well, again, we don't want to shut down the government, but in the court of public opinion, people also know that the federal government and the out of control spending is unsustainable. and large majorities of the american people want us to cut spending, to start making the tough decisions, to balance our budgets, start living within our means. the american people, in their own families, they understand that you have to do that. you have to make the tough deci